Why You Don’t Feel Safe (Even When You Are)

Interoception, homeostasis, and the autonomic nervous system come together in this powerful episode to help you understand why you may not feel safe—even when there's no actual danger. Hosts Ruth Lorensson and Tom Pals unpack how trauma, chronic stress, and learned woundings can keep your internal nervous system misaligned—and what science shows us about re-creating safety from within.

What You'll Discover:

• The disconnect between perceived threat and actual safety—driven by trauma, not current reality.
• How interoception and homeostatic regulation support the restoration of nervous system balance.
• Practical tools rooted in somatic healing, stress recovery, and self-regulation.
• How listening to the body—and not overthinking it—can transform your relationship with safety and well-being.

Why This Episode Matters:
Feeling unsafe when everything seems fine can be confusing and unsettling. This episode frames it through a living systems lens, showing why self-regulation is key to recovering emotional resilience and achieving whole-person wellness.

Tune In For:
A grounded, support‑based conversation blending neuroscience, somatic awareness, and real-life stories to guide you back to alignment, safety, and greater emotional freedom.

Transcript

Tom Pals

(0:02) 

Welcome to the Autonomic Homeostasis Activation Podcast.

 (0:07) 

I'm Tom Pals.

Ruth Lorensson

(0:08) 

And I'm Ruth Lorensson.

 (0:09) 

We'll be unpacking what it looks like to activate your brain to holistically manage stress and trauma to facilitate homeostasis.

Tom Pals

(0:17) 

Feel free to experience wellness in body, mind and spirit.

Ruth Lorensson

(0:22) 

Thank you for joining us.

 (0:24) 

Let's get this conversation started.

 (0:27) 

Good morning Tom.

(0:28) 

Good morning Ruth.

 (0:29) 

Well, I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

 (0:32) 

We're in this series, The Fundamentals of Wellness, which is kind of what we're all about, right?

(0:39) 

With everything that we've been talking about with Autonomic Homeostasis Activation and previous podcast episodes.

 (0:48) 

But in this particular season that we're doing, The Fundamentals of Wellness, we're really looking at what are the components to people who want to pursue wellness.

 (1:01) 

I think that's something that a lot of people would say.

(1:03) 

Oh, very much.

 (1:04) 

Yes, that's what we want.

 (1:06) 

So what we're going to do today is just talk about, we're going to actually dip into Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, which I'm sure a lot of our listeners would know about.

(1:16) 

But we're going to do a little overview, but then talk specifically about the need for safety in the pursuit of wellness.

 (1:27) 

And what is safety?

 (1:30) 

We're going to talk about that and why safety is so fundamental in that.

(1:35) 

But why don't you start us off?

 (1:37) 

Because we just want to do a bit of an intro.

 (1:40) 

We're actually going to try and go through Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in a few different episodes.

(1:46) 

Give us an overview of that and then also how it applies to wellness.

Tom Pals

(1:54) 

We did talk about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in a prior podcast.

 (2:01) 

So if somebody wanted to go back and listen to that one, they could.

 (2:04) 

But in terms of the Hierarchy of Needs, what Maslow identified, and it's usually in the shape of a pyramid, were five levels of essential human need.

(2:18) 

And there is the physiological, and things like food and water and shelter and clothing.

 (2:27) 

Those are essential needs, and if we don't have any one or more of those needs met, not only do we not thrive, we don't survive.

 (2:37) 

How long can we go without water?

(2:41) 

Food.

 (2:42) 

How long are we going to make it without shelter or clothing?

 (2:46) 

We don't have hides like other animals.

(2:49) 

That's a basic human need.

 (2:52) 

And then the second level above that is safety.

 (2:57) 

And that's the one we're going to unpack today and talk more about in terms of wellness.

(3:03) 

And from a perspective of wellness, if we don't have a sense of safety, we're not going to thrive, and we may not even survive.

 (3:18) 

And then the next one above physiological safety is love.

 (3:23) 

And if we have the physiological needs met, and there is the safety need met, then we can love.

(3:33) 

It's very challenging to love if physiological and safety needs are not met.

 (3:39) 

Not impossible, but much more challenging and much more easily done if physiological and safety are met.

 (3:50) 

And then if there's physiological needs met and safety needs met and the love needs met, then esteem can happen for self, for others, for the community that we're in.

(4:06) 

And then with physiological safety, love, and esteem, then we can move into that space of self-actualization.

 (4:15) 

So that's his hierarchy of needs.

 (4:18) 

Curiously, later in life, he added a sixth level, which is often not talked about or really acknowledged, and that's meta-needs or meta-motivation.

(4:35) 

I want to do more and wider.

 (4:38) 

It's a transformative, not self-actualization, but a greater actualization and a meta-motivation for that not just to be about me, but we, and the community and the environment that the person exists in.

 (5:01) 

Because an individual may have physiological, safety, love, esteem, and self-actualization all met, but what about my neighbor?

Ruth Lorensson

(5:11) 

And in some ways, the ultimate destination of wellness is when it's extended, when our wellness overflows and it becomes the source of someone else's wellness.

Tom Pals

(5:25) 

Yes.

Ruth Lorensson

(5:25) 

Is that what you're saying?

Tom Pals

(5:26) 

Oh, absolutely.

 (5:27) 

And their wellness supports mine.

Ruth Lorensson

(5:31) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(5:35) 

So assuming, and for many, many people, they have those basic physiological needs met.

(5:45) 

Mm-hmm.

 (5:46) 

Food.

(5:47) 

Yeah.

 (5:49) 

Water.

 (5:52) 

Shelter.

Ruth Lorensson

(5:53) 

Mm-hmm.

Tom Pals

(5:55) 

And clothing.

 (5:57) 

For many people.

Ruth Lorensson

(5:59) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(6:00) 

There are those who, for a variety of reasons, may not have one or more of those.

 (6:05) 

It may be a temporary situation.

 (6:07) 

It may be a natural calamity or something that occurs.

(6:11) 

But the community can reach out and support that, or it doesn't.

 (6:17) 

Mm-hmm.

 (6:17) 

And then that fundamentally compromises, eventually, everybody else's.

(6:24) 

And so with those needs met, there can be a sense of safety.

 (6:32) 

One thing I wanted to add, and this is just my take on NASLO and expansion of that, because physiological needs has been expanded to include not just food, water, shelter, and clothing, but even transportation.

(6:52) 

Getting from here to there is a physiological need.

Ruth Lorensson

(6:58) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(6:59) 

To get things, to acquire things.

 (7:02) 

And sanitation.

 (7:05) 

How significant is sanitation to physiological needs?

(7:10) 

And education.

 (7:13) 

That's a physiological need.

 (7:16) 

And health care.

(7:20) 

Physiological need.

 (7:23) 

And my contribution, or in addition to that, would be homeostasis and the experience of it and the facilitation of it.

 (7:34) 

Because all of those things, if you think about it, food, water, shelter, clothing, they all affect homeostasis.

(7:43) 

And the lack of any of them is compromising homeostasis to some degree.

 (7:48) 

Mm-hmm.

(7:48) 

Hence the reason for health care to help restore that.

(7:53) 

Mm-hmm.

 (7:54) 

Why I think the physiological is so significant when it comes to safety is because without those met, or even if they are met, if my physiological functioning, in terms of the sympathetic nervous system, and flight or fight, I sense or perceive a threat to well-being, that's physiological because it's neurobiological.

 (8:23) 

Mm-hmm.

(8:24) 

Physiological isn't just food, water, shelter, and clothing.

 (8:29) 

Physiological is the functioning of the body itself.

 (8:33) 

Hence the reason that health care was added.

(8:37) 

Mm-hmm.

 (8:38) 

But if my sympathetic nervous system, because of unresolved trauma or chronic stress, because functionally the brain reacts to chronic stress and trauma the same way.

(8:50) 

It's just a prolonged experience of the triggering of flight or fight.

(8:56) 

And if that homeostasis function neurobiologically is not supported, I will not feel safe.

(9:06) 

Mm-hmm.

 (9:07) 

I will sense or perceive I am in danger.

Ruth Lorensson

(9:12) 

Yeah.

 (9:13) 

And I think, you know, as you're speaking, I think it's so, I mean, I just want to speaking to why we're bringing this up.

 (9:21) 

Because, and I think it's important, it might be obvious, but I think it's worth stating.

(9:26) 

There will be people who are listening to this podcast and, you know, they genuinely are pursuing wellness.

 (9:33) 

They're like, yeah, that's what I want to sign up.

 (9:35) 

And it feels impossible if you're in that space.

(9:40) 

And I think either that space where, you know, one of those physical needs is not being met.

(9:47) 

So if you're in a space where, I don't know, you're worried about, like you've lost your job, you're worried about money.

 (9:54) 

You're not sure where the next, you know, how you're going to get food for next week for your children.

(9:59) 

That is a significant roadblock to wellness.

 (10:04) 

But what I want to say, Tom, is sometimes people can feel like, I'm not even there at wellness.

 (10:09) 

I would say that is part of the wellness journey, you know, and embrace it instead of thinking, I'm not well.

(10:17) 

Of course, you're not going to feel the full benefits of wellness.

 (10:21) 

I think what I'm trying to say is to validate where you're at.

 (10:26) 

Of course, you're not feeling that.

(10:28) 

I've had situations where, you know, I've had a health scare or something.

 (10:34) 

And in those times, it's actually really difficult for me to be present with my children.

 (10:41) 

Now, I'm absolutely, I'm the biggest fan of my children.

(10:44) 

I would like, you know, I know that I'd lay my life down for my children.

 (10:48) 

But the having kindness about the situation and going, of course I can't, because it's literally, you know, this kind of physical threat right now is stopping the rest of wellness.

 (11:03) 

So, but, you know, what we really want to focus on is, in that physical space, is, like you said, safety.

(11:10) 

And I think that, like you said, there very well may be people who are listening who are, you know, they're struggling with housing, they're struggling with food, you know, all of those things.

(11:22) 

But interestingly enough, with safety, I think a lot of people can have all of the other things, but still not feel safe.

 (11:33) 

So I think that's the reason why we're bringing it up, because I think it can apply to a lot of people who are listening.

(11:41) 

That sense of, oh, I don't feel safe.

 (11:43) 

I'm curious if the listeners just took a moment just to check in with themselves and ask that question.

 (11:50) 

You know, how safe do I feel?

(11:53) 

It would be interesting, you know, to get that sense of, do I feel safe or do I not?

 (11:59) 

And sometimes the confusing thing about safety is that we don't know why we don't feel safe.

 (12:06) 

And I think that that's what I'd love you to just expand on, because there are real issues of, well, we're not safe, but there's also perceptions, and then also what perceptions do somatically to our body.

(12:22) 

So can you talk about that?

 (12:23) 

Why would we feel unsafe when maybe we have a nice house, or we have food on our table, we have these things.

 (12:36) 

What is that?

(12:38) 

What's the blurry ball of unsafety?

Tom Pals

(12:42) 

Yeah.

 (12:44) 

Because this is very much science, and it's the neurobiology of the autonomic nervous system.

 (12:53) 

And the sympathetic is flight or fight.

(12:56) 

And the sympathetic flight is what I describe as avoiding a sensed or perceived threat.

(13:06) 

Sensed or perceived.

 (13:11) 

And how we experience the terminology we would use to describe the experience of a void is stress and anxiety.

(13:24) 

For some it's much more stress, for some it's anxiety, for some it's stress and anxiety, but those are the two harbingers of the sympathetic avoid the sensed or perceived threat to well-being.

 (13:40) 

If we can't avoid the sensed or perceived threat to well-being, and that experience means we are not safe.

 (13:51) 

I am under threat.

(13:54) 

So I am not safe, and I sense it or perceive it that way, and I may have stress and anxiety about it, and if avoiding it isn't possible, then it flips over in the fight to manage.

 (14:07) 

I want to manage the sensed or perceived threat to well-being, and that shows up as depression or anger.

(14:18) 

And anger can show up in all sorts of different ways, but it's a way to try to manage the sensed or perceived threat, and with the sympathetic nervous system active, and for many it just never shuts off.

(14:36) 

It may quiet a little bit, but it just never shuts off.

 (14:40) 

They don't sense or perceive themselves as safe.

Ruth Lorensson

(14:46) 

And this is really common in today's world.

 (14:50) 

Do you think it's more common in today's world, or do you think we just have our own version of...

Tom Pals

(14:56) 

The research shows that our mental health, when it comes to wellness, is deteriorating.

Ruth Lorensson

(15:05) 

So that would be because possibly we have more access to...

 (15:12) 

So we turn on the news and we see everything that's going on.

 (15:16) 

So in the background of our day, even though we are cognitively switching off from that...

(15:22) 

So I pull out my laptop in the morning and scan through the awful headlines that we're seeing almost every day.

 (15:34) 

But then what happens is that I switch it off, and I think I'm switching it off, and I'm getting on with my day, but in the background somewhere there's a threat.

 (15:44) 

That would be one thing.

Tom Pals

(15:46) 

That would be an example.

Ruth Lorensson

(15:47) 

And then there's trauma that people have experienced from their childhood or from recent experiences.

 (15:54) 

So that could be another way in which we can perceive a threat to well-being.

Tom Pals

(16:00) 

Another example is entertainment.

 (16:05) 

How much of the entertainment that is being consumed involves violence?

 (16:15) 

Whether made-up and make-believe in some universe or something, in science fiction or whatever, or some tangible manifestation of that.

(16:26) 

How much violence is there?

 (16:29) 

And how much personal danger could be emotional?

(16:37) 

That stuff gets people's attention.

(16:41) 

They spend money on it, but what is it doing in terms of the impact on their sympathetic nervous system?

Ruth Lorensson

(16:50) 

And then there's just the information overload of, like, you know, we know more about health, or you have to manage your Facebook account because it's popping up with, oh, by the way, do you know this symptom?

 (17:05) 

You probably have some version of cancer.

 (17:08) 

And so we just didn't have this before.

(17:12) 

So we have all of this information out of context that we're supposed to try and discern and sift, and yet we don't have the expertise and knowledge necessarily for a lot of those things.

(17:26) 

And so that's a world we're living in right now.

 (17:29) 

And then we have the environment.

(17:31) 

We have, like, you know, some really big global things that feel like, again, you can switch off from that and just live your days.

 (17:39) 

And, you know, this summer I'm down the pool with my kids.

 (17:43) 

You know, it feels very safe in Fort Collins.

(17:46) 

And yet in the background, in my mind, I still know, I don't know whether it's subconscious or, you know, something.

 (17:58) 

I know that there's things that are unsafe around the world.

Tom Pals

(18:02) 

So.

 (18:03) 

Yep, and that provokes two dynamics related to the compromising of a sense of safety, and that's the what if and the negative anticipation.

 (18:17) 

Because of random acts of violence and things like that.

(18:23) 

There was a recent incident in Minnesota, and having lived in Minnesota for a total of five years at some points of my life, there's Minnesota nice, and everybody in Minnesota is nice, and that was not nice, and people were assassinated.

 (18:40) 

What?

 (18:42) 

And then the, well, what if?

(18:44) 

If it could happen there, what if it were to?

 (18:47) 

These things are happening.

 (18:49) 

Children in schools.

(18:51) 

What if these random things are occurring?

 (18:56) 

What if that's here?

 (18:57) 

And then the negative anticipation of something bad happening.

(19:04) 

And that is that sympathetic nervous system, fight or flight, just being on.

 (19:10) 

When it comes to safety, neurobiologically, that's the parasympathetic.

 (19:17) 

Safety is a sense of rest.

(19:23) 

Relax.

 (19:26) 

Recover.

 (19:27) 

If there was stress, recover from it.

(19:32) 

If there was anxiety, I recover from it.

 (19:35) 

If there was depression, I recover from it.

(19:37) 

If there was anger, I recover from it.

(19:39) 

And then digest.

 (19:42) 

All very physiological, especially digest, that's very physiological, very much related to safety, and that's homeostasis.

 (19:51) 

And all these other things compromise it.

(19:55) 

My point is that there's also another element related to safety, and whether we feel safe or unsafe and can recover, rest, relax, and digest, is if something is amiss, I am threatened in some way, some medical issue, some mental health issue, and there is this promised solution.

 (20:24) 

This will make you feel better.

 (20:28) 

The history of that goes back in human to leeches.

(20:34) 

Just leech out blood and get the humors right, or the traveling show in the wagon of Dr. Whoever's elixir of life, and this will make you feel...

 (20:48) 

And we look for those things to solve our problems, to resolve the threats, but they fail.

 (20:57) 

They don't deliver on what's promised, which simply exacerbates, makes far worse, the sense of I'm not safe.

Ruth Lorensson

(21:06) 

Yeah, we were talking about that earlier, how these big, in some ways they're these big spaces, and it could be like a family unit, or it could be spirituality, or it could be an institution that you've aligned with.

 (21:26) 

So these big spaces, if there's disappointment, or you did trust them and they really let you down, it really has an impact on eroding that sense of safety.

 (21:40) 

So you might not even join the dots.

(21:43) 

It might be that you were part of an institution.

 (21:51) 

There's federal workers right now that are experiencing this.

 (21:55) 

A lot of these federal workers that have been let go recently have given their whole lives to that career.

(22:06) 

And so whilst you could see that's a career thing and it's disappointing or whatever, it wouldn't be surprising for some of those people, depending on their makeup, to actually feel unsafe in other areas, and they wouldn't know why, but it's because there's been an erosion of something they trusted in there, so why would they feel safe anywhere else, even subconsciously, you know?

Tom Pals

(22:34) 

Does that make sense?

 (22:35) 

Oh, absolutely.

 (22:38) 

And world conflicts.

(22:42) 

Is the world a more peaceful place?

 (22:47) 

No, objectively.

 (22:49) 

And it's not getting more peaceful.

(22:54) 

Are nations getting along better?

 (22:57) 

No, they're not getting better along.

 (23:02) 

Economically, in terms of sharing of resources, pursuing what makes the planet sustainable, we're not headed in that direction.

(23:14) 

All of this contributes to a sense of a lack of safety.

 (23:19) 

So I can have all those physiological needs met, but if I don't have that level of safety met, and sense and perceive that I am safe, I'm not going to thrive.

Ruth Lorensson

(23:34) 

Which is a really big problem for today's world.

 (23:38) 

I think that it really is something that's huge.

 (23:48) 

If people are listening to this, I think that most people would identify with that.

(23:53) 

We have a lot of other stuff, but that sense of feeling at rest, safe, whatever avenues that lack of safety comes through.

 (24:06) 

So let's just talk about why safety is really imperative for wellness.

 (24:14) 

I think it's kind of obvious, especially with the hierarchy of needs, but can you elaborate a little bit on that?

Tom Pals

(24:21) 

Yeah.

 (24:22) 

The very next, what comes to my mind immediately, is the very next level on Maslow's hierarchy of need, above physiological and safety, is love.

 (24:38) 

Without the physiological and safety, we don't venture into love.

(24:45) 

And we become more and more unloving, which has a very detrimental effect on safety and even physiological needs.

Ruth Lorensson

(24:56) 

So it's kind of cyclic.

Tom Pals

(24:59) 

Yeah.

 (24:59) 

There's no foundation for love then.

Ruth Lorensson

(25:03) 

Yeah, it's like when you're feeling unsafe, it can be like everyone look after themselves, like batten down the hatches.

 (25:09) 

Forget your neighbor, which is what we talked about just right at the beginning.

 (25:14) 

The ultimate version of wellness is where it extends from just us to others, and vice versa.

Tom Pals

(25:22) 

Better needs, better motivation.

Ruth Lorensson

(25:24) 

Yeah.

 (25:25) 

So this lack of safety, this feeling, this perception that we have, or this sensing that we have, it kind of keeps us stuck in that first level.

Tom Pals

(25:38) 

It keeps us unloving.

Ruth Lorensson

(25:40) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(25:40) 

We don't sense we are safe, and then we are not loving.

 (25:46) 

That's huge.

 (25:49) 

If I or anyone doesn't sense they are safe, then they're not loving.

(25:58) 

Why?

 (25:59) 

Because, again, flight or fight.

 (26:03) 

Stress, anxiety, depression, anger.

(26:10) 

Love?

 (26:18) 

Love can support safety.

 (26:22) 

Love provides for those physiological needs.

(26:27) 

Love intercedes for it, but we don't get to love if those others aren't mad.

 (26:34) 

It's much more challenging to do that.

 (26:37) 

That is a basic reason.

(26:41) 

Another reason that safety is so critical is because it affects the way we think about and sense the presence of others, as well as ourselves.

 (27:03) 

If I have an overactive sympathetic nervous system, flight or fight, stress, anxiety, depression, anger, I may be sensing and perceiving others in ways that isn't the reality.

 (27:19) 

Have you ever had that moment where it's like you're walking and it's like you just feel dangers?

(27:27) 

What?

 (27:28) 

You know what I mean?

 (27:30) 

That's a very common human thing.

(27:32) 

Is there actually anything there?

 (27:34) 

No.

Ruth Lorensson

(27:36) 

Why do we do that?

Tom Pals

(27:37) 

Isolation.

 (27:40) 

The sympathetic nervous system, hypervigilant, scanning for potential threats, and then a sound can be reinterpreted as someone stalking you.

 (27:54) 

No, it was a woodchuck or it was a squirrel scantering.

(28:02) 

And we make stuff up.

Ruth Lorensson

(28:05) 

I had this example.

 (28:07) 

It's really interesting.

 (28:08) 

I've not told you this, but it just came to mind.

(28:11) 

It was a few weeks ago, and I was wondering why I did this, so that's why I asked.

 (28:17) 

But a few weeks ago, I just got up in the morning and I saw that the kids had left some cheese out on the kitchen table.

 (28:28) 

And I thought, oh, kids, don't leave cheese out.

(28:32) 

We'll get mice, right?

 (28:33) 

And I put the cheese back in the fridge and then I quickly darted, my eyes quickly darted to the floor thinking I'd saw a mouse.

 (28:42) 

And then I didn't.

(28:43) 

It was like a little shadow that I was like, why did my brain make that up?

 (28:47) 

So that was interesting to me.

Tom Pals

(28:49) 

Because a sound or a shadow may be in reality one thing, but the mind and the brain sense it because of what the mind has been thinking, then the brain is kind of hostage to that.

(29:08) 

It's like, okay, you want me to look for mice?

 (29:11) 

I'll look for mice.

(29:12) 

Well, that kind of looks, okay, there it is.

 (29:15) 

You wanted to see one, there it is.

Ruth Lorensson

(29:19) 

That's hilarious.

 (29:21) 

And I actually thought, like I thought, why did I just, and then I thought, it's because I sat, you know, in my mind.

 (29:27) 

So I figured it out, I think.

Tom Pals

(29:30) 

And what complicates it even further is that then we think the brain did that.

 (29:36) 

That the brain didn't do that.

 (29:38) 

The brain just responded to us with our mind It's what I call new car syndrome.

Ruth Lorensson

(29:48) 

Yes, yeah.

Tom Pals

(29:49) 

Yes, it's like I get a new car and suddenly they're everywhere.

 (29:54) 

The same make, the same model, the same color, and they're everywhere.

 (29:59) 

And suddenly, because I bought this car, everybody has bought this car.

(30:05) 

No, they were always there, we just didn't see them.

 (30:08) 

And the reason we didn't see them is because it's not significant to us in our minds.

 (30:15) 

And then the reverse can happen as well.

(30:18) 

That when we have experienced something that is traumatic or upsetting or distressing, and the brain has not had the opportunity without interference to normalize that, hence AHA, that then when I experience something close enough like it in the present, the paradigm is that was then and that is now, and I'm reactive the way I was then, even though that's not happening now.

(30:48) 

But because I'm reacting, it's almost like I can create it again.

 (30:55) 

Why?

(30:58) 

Because we often as human beings try to recreate situations to get them to come out differently than they did before.

 (31:05) 

And intentionally, unintentionally, consciously, subconsciously, we will often recreate prior stress, trauma, relationship, experiences, things like that, because I'm going to get them to come out differently this time.

 (31:25) 

Except they don't.

(31:27) 

Because they didn't come out differently before, we just keep repeating the same patterns.

(31:35) 

And the fundamental impact is that I'm not safe.

 (31:40) 

And I can't be safe.

Ruth Lorensson

(31:43) 

So I wonder whether, I mean do you think, I mean I guess my next question is going to be, so we know safety is really important.

 (31:51) 

We need to somehow, and it's also very problematic when we're feeling unsafe, to really kind of get through to those next stages of wellness.

 (32:03) 

So I guess the big question is, well what do we do?

(32:06) 

Like how do we get there?

 (32:08) 

But I was curious when you said how, if I'm curious about intention, because what you've just described is kind of negative intention.

Tom Pals

(32:18) 

Oh absolutely.

Ruth Lorensson

(32:19) 

Like I thought about a mouse, and then, And there's one?

 (32:23) 

Yeah, so my mind is kind of playing tricks.

 (32:26) 

And your brain's going, okay, we're looking for mice.

(32:29) 

Well that's kind of like that.

 (32:31) 

And the same with the car thing.

 (32:33) 

It's like suddenly it's important to me, so therefore I see it.

(32:37) 

So I wonder, is there something about safety where we can set our intentions to kind of understand how safe we are?

 (32:50) 

Or can we do the opposite with a positive reinforcement?

Tom Pals

(32:55) 

Absolutely.

Ruth Lorensson

(32:56) 

So talk about that, and any other answers you have for us in terms of, how do we move through this place of perceived or sensed and safety?

 (33:08) 

How do we move through that, Tom?

 (33:09) 

So that we don't get stuck, so that we're not stuck, so we don't start unloving people, but that actually we kind of move through that space with grace, because it's clunky, but there has got to be a pathway right through it.

Tom Pals

(33:31) 

Ultimately, and this is about AHA, let the brain do it.

 (33:37) 

But even if, and if the brain engages in and normalizes the stress, anxiety, depression, anger, I can live more on the parasympathetic.

 (33:48) 

If the sympathetic is triggered, I have a way neurobiologically that's built into and hardwired in my anterior nervous system, the brain and my gut, and interoception combined, I can get it normalized again.

(34:04) 

Short of that, it's not as though if you don't have AHA, you can't do anything about it.

(34:10) 

One of the things, like with negative anticipation, is just affirm to yourself, I'm making it up.

(34:19) 

I just made that up.

(34:21) 

Of course I did.

 (34:22) 

So what?

 (34:25) 

And if you think about it, negative anticipation has a high degree of not being accurate.

Ruth Lorensson

(34:35) 

True.

 (34:36) 

And I think even just naming it, I mean, even the mouse story, just kind of exposes it for what it is.

 (34:43) 

You think, wow, that's, like how powerful that that could happen to us.

(34:49) 

And if it happens in the mouse story, it can happen.

Tom Pals

(34:52) 

Oh, it's constant.

Ruth Lorensson

(34:52) 

You know, it's happening all the time with all of the other things.

 (34:56) 

And like you say, there's a high rate that it's not true.

Tom Pals

(35:00) 

Yep.

 (35:01) 

So with negative anticipation, I'm just lying to myself.

 (35:05) 

I'm believing things and anticipating things that are simply not going to happen.

(35:11) 

And two, by doing that, I miss out on the positive things I can anticipate.

 (35:19) 

Because I'm so focused on the negative thing that might happen, I'm missing out on all the positive things that are happening and are going to happen.

 (35:30) 

So I get to liberate myself by saying, I'm making stuff up.

(35:35) 

It's a shadow, not a mouse.

 (35:38) 

And you can even develop that from personal experience when you encounter another shadow and you feared the mouse and just use it as your mantra.

 (35:50) 

It's a shadow, not a mouse.

(35:52) 

And the cheese is just fine and nobody's going to take my cheese.

 (35:57) 

Especially little rodents and all that.

 (36:00) 

I'm good.

(36:02) 

And then say, so what is the positive?

 (36:09) 

There's always positives.

 (36:14) 

Look for them.

(36:15) 

And turn that scanning function in the brain, direct it toward looking for that.

 (36:24) 

Because it'll find it.

 (36:26) 

Because you told it to.

Ruth Lorensson

(36:28) 

Yeah.

 (36:30) 

And then incrementally you begin to feel safe.

Tom Pals

(36:34) 

You shift the paradigm.

 (36:36) 

Yep.

 (36:37) 

And deal with your stuff.

(36:40) 

It doesn't have to just stay undealt with.

 (36:44) 

There are many things that do provide benefits.

 (36:49) 

Mindfulness, meditation, connection, positive interactions, identifying, how do I see things and it's not the truth.

(37:05) 

All sorts of things that we can put our energy into that relate to surviving and thriving rather than spending all that energy in things that just compromise surviving.

Ruth Lorensson

(37:21) 

Yeah.

Tom Pals

(37:22) 

We have a finite amount of energy.

 (37:25) 

Choose where you spend it.

Ruth Lorensson

(37:28) 

Yeah.

 (37:28) 

So I think this, just to wrap up, the reason we've focused on safety is because I think it's one of these, it's like an undercurrent that I think a lot of people aren't identifying.

(37:44) 

It's just there in the background.

(37:46) 

But if we just took a moment, how safe do you feel?

 (37:50) 

It could be surprising that even though you could, on the face of it, look like you're completely fine, there are these perceived and sensed threats.

 (37:59) 

Yeah.

(37:59) 

We're naming it in this session because it's important to name because unless you know it, the fight and flight mechanism in us will just keep going.

 (38:12) 

When we name it, when we can see it, when we can say, oh, that's perceived, that's sensed, then we have a chance to really understand why, deal with some of the stuff, but then also really change the direction of that to get through, to create a pathway to that next level, which is loving, which is death.

 (38:36) 

It is really, really important to acknowledge where you're at with safety.

(38:42) 

If you're a person who is pursuing wellness, acknowledging, really wrestling with this aspect of safety is, I think, really key and really hopeful because we can get there.

 (38:55) 

It's complicated, but we can figure it out with our brains, like you said, to a place of, okay, the world isn't completely safe.

Tom Pals

(39:09) 

We know that, but- Never is, never has been, and never will be.

Ruth Lorensson

(39:13) 

As we discipline our minds and our brains to inform our minds, we can create that pathway to actually understanding, well, actually, we are, there is safety.

 (39:26) 

There are spaces of safety, and then we- That's the key.

Tom Pals

(39:30) 

We get to choose to live in those spaces of safety.

 (39:36) 

They exist.

 (39:38) 

We can live in them, and if we choose not to live in those spaces of safety and wellness, we will choose, and are choosing, those spaces that are not safe, which gets into our next episode, which will be about love and why so much of what has the label of love has nothing to do with love at all.

Ruth Lorensson

(40:02) 

You've been listening to the Autonomic Homeostasis Activation Podcast.

 (40:07) 

Join us next time as we continue in our conversations with Tom.

Tom Pals

(40:10) 

If you're interested in pursuing your own wellness journey, please check out our website, autonomichealing.org.

Ruth Lorensson

(40:19) 

You can also reach out to Tom at innerworkings.org.

Keywords:

Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, sense of safety, psychological safety, autonomic nervous system, homeostasis, interoception, trauma recovery, chronic stress, parasympathetic nervous system, fight or flight response, emotional regulation, somatic healing, mind-body connection, nervous system regulation, holistic wellness, wellness podcast, trauma-informed wellness, living systems approach, neuroscience of wellness, rest and digest, perceived threat, safety and wellness, mental health support, body-based healing